This is not my beautiful house.
Nov. 13th, 2005 12:12 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
constanceI went on my blind date yesterday. In fact, it was really more like one of those 20-minute dating round-robin nightmares than an afternoon of coffee and window-shopping, and I saw three houses and peeked into the windows of another and didn't see a fifth at all. The three houses were each of them mighty fine, in their own way, but because I have a yen for May-December romances, it was the turn-of-the-century houses that were the most seductive.
I still like the red one
best. It's a Craftsman, which as we all know is an open obsession of mine. It's a bit on the shabby side, but appears to me to be in fairly decent shape. 1750 or so square feet. Five fireplaces, some of which have been stripped in preparation for staining. It has a wide front porch (albeit a porch inexplicably COVERED IN ASTROTURF OMG). It has a kitchen and a butler's pantry, both of which retain their beautiful glass-front original cabinets. The bathroom is pedestrian, but serviceable. Big, slightly overgrown fenced backyard. Floor furnace heat, no central air. It has glittery ceilings. The floors are in decent shape, with no soft or rotten spots that I could see. The neighborhood is like the house, shabby but decent, and it deserves to make a comeback because the houses in it are genuinely charming. It's $10000 cheaper than
, which, objectively speaking, is by far the best buy. It's priced low because it's corporate owned, and that and the fact that the former owners were partway through a major renovation are the only things that pull it into my price range. It's in a comfortably middle-class to upper-middle-class neighborhood, full of well-kept homes. It's got some major sex appeal. It sits on a slightly larger lot than Bachelor No. 1 does, and it is also fenced. It's one of those Late Victorian/Craftsman Hybrids. The kitchen has been completely modernized. There are three fireplaces. It has what the realtor calls three bedrooms and I call two, and it's huge, around 2200 square feet, and all the rooms are big--I worry that it will be a little too much. It has a back deck, with positively dangerous steps that will have to be replaced before anyone can use them. Central air and heat. There are a couple of spots where the ceiling plaster will have to be patched, and the owners had knocked out a wall between a bedroom and the butler's pantry and finished the walls but the floors are still a mess, though the tile they'd planned on using is stacked neatly against the wall. It's got a wraparound porch and lots of windows (both houses have lots of windows, actually). The bathroom's big but awkwardly laid out, and the fixtures are pink, and the wall tile is pink and bright new-leaf green O_o.
It's a good thing to have two houses to crush on, right? I could seriously love either one. And so now I have to decide which one I'd most want to commit to and fight the onset of a major panic attack and set everything in motion.
*takes deep breath*
:::
Of course you have seen neither of these houses personally. But I'm curious to know: which do you like best?
I still like the red one
best. It's a Craftsman, which as we all know is an open obsession of mine. It's a bit on the shabby side, but appears to me to be in fairly decent shape. 1750 or so square feet. Five fireplaces, some of which have been stripped in preparation for staining. It has a wide front porch (albeit a porch inexplicably COVERED IN ASTROTURF OMG). It has a kitchen and a butler's pantry, both of which retain their beautiful glass-front original cabinets. The bathroom is pedestrian, but serviceable. Big, slightly overgrown fenced backyard. Floor furnace heat, no central air. It has glittery ceilings. The floors are in decent shape, with no soft or rotten spots that I could see. The neighborhood is like the house, shabby but decent, and it deserves to make a comeback because the houses in it are genuinely charming. It's $10000 cheaper than, which, objectively speaking, is by far the best buy. It's priced low because it's corporate owned, and that and the fact that the former owners were partway through a major renovation are the only things that pull it into my price range. It's in a comfortably middle-class to upper-middle-class neighborhood, full of well-kept homes. It's got some major sex appeal. It sits on a slightly larger lot than Bachelor No. 1 does, and it is also fenced. It's one of those Late Victorian/Craftsman Hybrids. The kitchen has been completely modernized. There are three fireplaces. It has what the realtor calls three bedrooms and I call two, and it's huge, around 2200 square feet, and all the rooms are big--I worry that it will be a little too much. It has a back deck, with positively dangerous steps that will have to be replaced before anyone can use them. Central air and heat. There are a couple of spots where the ceiling plaster will have to be patched, and the owners had knocked out a wall between a bedroom and the butler's pantry and finished the walls but the floors are still a mess, though the tile they'd planned on using is stacked neatly against the wall. It's got a wraparound porch and lots of windows (both houses have lots of windows, actually). The bathroom's big but awkwardly laid out, and the fixtures are pink, and the wall tile is pink and bright new-leaf green O_o.It's a good thing to have two houses to crush on, right? I could seriously love either one. And so now I have to decide which one I'd most want to commit to and fight the onset of a major panic attack and set everything in motion.
*takes deep breath*
:::
Of course you have seen neither of these houses personally. But I'm curious to know: which do you like best?
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Date: 2005-11-13 05:44 am (UTC)oh god this is exciting. Beautiful liveably sized houses set in much greenery. Lovely, lovely, lovely.
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Date: 2005-11-13 01:02 pm (UTC)As for how long I'm going to live in it: to be honest, I don't know. I am a nester by instinct, and tend to want to stay in places a long time if circumstances allow it, and really, I could see living in either house for the long haul. But circumstances do sometimes intervene, and my job situation is a little uncertain ATM, so I might end up having to sell out and move to a new city, eventually.
I would venture to say, though, that as long as I would be in my current town, I would be in the house I end up choosing. I am not the sort of person who'd want to trade up every few years.
It is exciting, isn't it?! But terribly scary, too.
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Date: 2005-11-13 01:42 pm (UTC)There is nothing wrong with No. 1 (minus the Astroturf, and I was delighted yesterday when I realized that there's a house around the corner from me with an Astroturf porch), and it is adorable, and the neighborhood suits you more. I'm sticking with No. 1.
I wish I had a pretty house icon to use.
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Date: 2005-11-13 02:22 pm (UTC)I can recognize why everyone loves No. 2. I mean, seriously, what's not to love? But from a practical standpoint--and even, if you take my reverse-snobbery into consideration, from an aesthetic one--No. 1 just works better for me.
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Date: 2005-11-13 05:16 pm (UTC)#2 sounds like a better investment.
It's generally a better idea to buy the lower house in a better neighborhood rather than one of the better houses in a more questionable neighborhood when it comes to resale. At least, that's what I've heard.
Also, the larger house is one you could grow into over the years. Money is tight when you first move into a house, especially your first, but it does get better. You don't need to do all that remodelling at once but over time, when it gets done, you'll have quite a gem on your hands - to either live in and enjoy or sell and make a tidy amount on.
The craftsman is lovely, and I can see its appeal for a single person of taste : ) (I myself am having fantasies about living there in some alternative life) but bachelor #2 ... more ambitious and more potential.
I know, investment is probably not your priority here but I felt the question had to be raised. Also, are the neighborhoods changing at all? Getting worse? Better?
All that aside, CONGRATUALATIONS!!! Yes, exciting. Do you have a cushion so you can sleep easily at night? Someone you could borrow a few mortgage payments off of just in case? My brother bought his first place recently and was a wreck - a year later though he's saying "why didn't I do this sooner??" It will be fine. : ) Whichever you choose you HAVE to keep posting lots of pictures re remodelling, decorating etc. I live in a newish, boring, completely characterless California home. I envy you deeply. : )
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Date: 2005-11-13 06:05 pm (UTC)Especially, and I hate to say this, in a place as openly racist as Macon, where a mere racial mix in a neighborhood, all other things being exactly equal, can bring down the value of a house. I think the fact that this matters is completely obscene. But it does matter, here.
The neighborhoods: No. 1's neighborhood was quite nice when it was built, very similar in demographic to No. 2. It's come down in the world since then, but it was never terrible, and evidence shows that it's coming back, as "adventurous" people buy houses for their character and fix them up.
Your point about the financial struggle easing up within a few years is well taken, and I will definitely keep it in mind when I'm thinking more carefully about what I want to end up with. (And probably after that as well!)
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Date: 2005-11-14 02:33 pm (UTC)I winced horribly when I read this - not at you but at the sucky world we live in. If it was me I would put this consideration completely out of my mind, and just pretend it didn't exist as a factor. But then, I live in an overwhelmingly "black" neighbourhood myself (albeit one with dozens of trendy bars and restaurants, and a fab cinema...).
I hear what you said below about practicality versus following your heart . But I think if all the practical essentials are met you're free to give your heart to a house. My sister bought a practical, boxy family house, and although she's content enough living there she'll never love it the way I love my little Victorian converted flat.
I've really enjoyed reading all the comments to this post. The London property market is such a tired old topic for me - I know it all backwards. But it's fascinating to follow a discussion about the US house market.
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Date: 2005-11-15 12:58 am (UTC)I am not going to go so far to the practical that I buy a house I can't love. I really think that both these houses are entirely lovable, and so my heart will play in either.... Okay, if I set the practical/lovable to a percentage, I think Bachelor #1 would be 40%/60% and Bachelor #2 would be 60%-40%. So it's just a matter of letting my head or my heart rule, while knowing that at the same time the other will get some say as well.
I am new-ish to the US housing market too! I have the feeling that we will all be experts by the time this is over, if I don't learn to curb my enthusiasm.
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Date: 2005-11-15 07:04 pm (UTC)Btw I just noticed my site is down. I didn't break it, mom, I promise!
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Date: 2005-11-16 12:43 am (UTC)As for reactions to racist comments: ahhhh, I have perfected my I-am-completely-horrified-but-much-too-shy-to-tell-you-so look. I had cause to use it just the other day, as a matter of fact, and it worked like a charm.
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Date: 2005-11-13 06:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 01:04 pm (UTC)And now it is not. O_o!
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Date: 2005-11-13 06:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 01:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 11:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 01:18 pm (UTC)A few years ago, I lived in an apartment I really loved, an old garage apartment in an upscale older neighborhood. The apartment was wonderful, and my parents adored the neighborhood, but I wasn't all that fond of it--except for the goats which is another story-- because I much prefer mixed-class, mixed-race neighborhoods as well.
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Date: 2005-11-13 02:56 pm (UTC)I would find the bathroom silly and I would no doubt giggle every time I had to use the toilet -- my current bathroom is decorated in ducks -- and so that bit of the fix-up wouldn't bug me, but as for the rest of it, no. And to be honest with you, that extra space kind of wigs me out a bit. It seems like the things you would be paying extra for -- more room, better neighborhood, modernized (yet incomplete) features, the Victorian character -- are things you don't want very much, and that it has built-in inconveniences, while #1 is lovely in every way except for the astroturf, which is no big deal. And the cabinets! <3333333333! One question about #1, though, which is that I can't tell if this is just the picture or just me, but is the roof sagging a little over the front porch? Obviously you would get an inspector in to look at the house, but I am a little worried about structural soundness.
#1 also is in exactly the same style as this house that I pass by several times every day on my lunchtime walk, and upon which I have been crushing excessively. I am just hardwired to think it = sexy, I am afraid.
I guess I need some new house icons.
Date: 2005-11-13 03:33 pm (UTC)You put it very well: that the things I'd be paying for in No. 2 are not things I find especially compelling. The reason why I am considering it still is because of something I read in Renovation (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1561585882/qid=1131895525/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-4210457-2282550?v=glance&s=books&n=507846): that you must listen to your heart, but in the end, when you're buying a house, practicality must be your first consideration, and from more generally practical standards than mine, the second house is the better bet of the two, onoing Major Project or no.
I've noticed the possible sag on the porch of No. 1 as well. Even in person, it's hard to tell whether the catenary's real or just some kind of optical illusion, but I suppose the fact that we think it's there at all, when we're so disposed to find it entirely lovely, is an indication that it's really there. Inspection will tell, though. :D
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Date: 2005-11-13 03:56 pm (UTC)The first house LOOKS like a house you would live in, insofar as I know you. And as for the neighborhood, I'm probably personalizing this, but the idea of "shabby but decent" seems more romantic and appealing than "comfortably middle class to upper middle class". I dunno- seems like there'd be more interesting neighbors surrounding House 1.
Is the lack of central air a problem? We don't have it, but then again, we don't have your formidable humidity, either. It looks like one of your potential neighbors has one of those "air conditioner in the window" thingies- could you get by with something like that?
Original glass-front cabinets! Whee! And forgive my ignorance, but what's a butler's pantry?
Think of the fun you could have throwing a "Rip out the godawful astroturf" party! (What comestibles would one serve at such a function?) And then you could festoon the new non-fuzzy porch with a carnival of potted succulents and annuals! (Sorry, personalizing again.)
Goodness, this is getting wordy. Clearly ONE of us needs to buy this house. As someone above pointed out, House 1 is also more move-in-ready than the second house, so there's one more point in its favor.
Thanks for posting about your round-robin date! I was seething with anticipation over it.
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Date: 2005-11-13 04:43 pm (UTC)A butler's pantry is a large pass-through pantry between a dining room and a kitchen, in houses of a certain age. It usually contains cabinets and extra kitchen/food storage. (This one is about six by twelve feet, and the back half has been outfitted for a washer and drier while still leaving plenty of room for the cabinets.) Because roomy kitchens are in vogue right now, a lot of people when they buy a house with one will cannibalize the space to make the kitchen bigger. (Or, as in the case of Bachelor no. 2, to make another room bigger.) But I love them and have always wanted one, and that's just one more thing to make No. 1 appealing.
Air conditioning is pretty essential for me in a climate like this, and so window a/c units at the least would be a necessity. But I happen to be the proud owner of three window units, and so could make do very nicely until such time (if that time ever came) as I could put in central air.
And hahahah, thank you for reading and offering an opinion--it's completely fascinating, reading about what other people have to say!
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Date: 2005-11-13 06:46 pm (UTC)Thank you for defining the butler's pantry. We don't appear to have those in our older houses (or perhaps ours simply aren't old enough? My house and others in this neighborhood are 1928-1929ish) but we do have "service porches", which are a nice place to stick extra cabinets and ye olde washer and dryer, and usually have a door leading out to the backyard or side yard. These are the bits that usually get cannibalized when bigger kitchens are desired.
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Date: 2005-11-13 10:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 11:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-11-13 11:36 pm (UTC)I've seen houses with service porches--actually, now that I think of it, I've lived in a house that had one of each! It was my first apartment in NO, and it was tres swank, much more swank, in retrospect, than we should ever have rented in the first place.
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Date: 2005-11-13 11:51 pm (UTC)I showed both your pictures to the spouse, and he priced them even higher than I did- close to a million for the first one, and 1.2 million for the second one. He must have been looking at more recent real estate circulars than I have been.
What other parts of the world have you considered? Seems as though every place I like is comparably expensive to here- England, Norway, Maine, etc.
And I've never lived in a tres swank apartment, only generic-to-seedy ones. There certainly wasn't a butler's pantry OR a service porch in either of them. I did rent a house once, though, where there was one of those super-creepy cellars that you reach via a door in the ground!
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Date: 2005-11-14 01:42 am (UTC)O_o Holy shit, dude.
I am going to save your question about where I've considered living for a top-five list! Because that is just the sort of thing that the community's all about! And also because I want to hear your answers too! (Why am I using all the exclamation points! I do not know!)
Creepy Basement! I am so very, very envious! Maybe I would not be if I were living in a house with one--it is highly possible that I would be spending all my time worrying that a serial killer, or maybe James Leer, was squatting down there, and also too afraid to go down and check to make sure he wasn't.
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Date: 2005-11-13 05:58 pm (UTC)You could get royally fucked if you take #1, depending on how bad the over-valuing is in your area. Negative equity, the works.
I'm kind of shooting from the hip, here, since I don't have a realistic notion of markets in your part of the country, but I know around here it's so bad I won't even *consider* buying a house until the pricing bubble is well and truly popped.
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Date: 2005-11-13 06:14 pm (UTC)Another thing working in my favor is that the current mania for renovating old houses hasn't well and truly caught on yet here, though slowly old house sales are gaining momentum. So I think--though I'm no expert--that I'm well-placed to buy a house and have it pay off eventually (especially now, before interest rates start going up again), though the negative equity aspect is something to consider, especially if the government decides to close the major air force base here, which of course is always a danger and of course the AFB is our biggest employer.
And God, yes, I would want to be finished in five years! Just watching my parents deal with the past eight months makes me want to make sure I'm not doing this for the rest of my life. :D
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Date: 2005-11-13 10:33 pm (UTC)If it were me and my husband, I'd go for #2, but if it were just me, I'd go for #1. We are in the middle of major renovations, and let me tell you, it sucks your time and money and will to live. In fact, I'm stealing time from what I should be doing - staining baseboard trim - to post this comment.
Also, floor heat? The best thing since sliced bread.
I was going to say that I would choose the one in the neighborhood that you prefer, because location truly is important. I love my house but I also love where it is. But then I saw the comment where you mentioned how much they cost, and all I can say is, BUY BOTH OF THEM, THEY ARE SO CHEAP!!! Geez. I am astonished and amazed.
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Date: 2005-11-13 11:44 pm (UTC)One of the reasons I love living in the South is the housing. Now, Macon has the most inexpensive housing of any place I've ever lived as an adult, but really, even New Orleans, a city which prides itself on noteworthy architecture, is relatively cheap to live.
I could live in either neighborhood comfortably and willingly. I just happen to like the first neighborhood a little more.
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Date: 2005-11-14 12:43 am (UTC)We bought the house on 3/3/2003. It had been a rental for 20 years, and had last been "renovated" in the 50s; it was 1100 sf. It was a screaming deal for this area at $251,000 (we offered on it 15 minutes after we saw it; there were 3 other offers, but we had no contingencies so we got it. Whew.)
We remodeled the hideous kitchen and installed in-floor heating, a new heater, and rewired the place first off. (Still had the old knob-and-tube wiring, and the outlets were not grounded, and there were about 4 of them in the whole house. The kitchen basically ran off a power strip.) While we were gone this winter we had the tiny bathroom removed and a new one carved out of the strange skinny bedroom (8x15), and the foundationless sinking old-addition knocked off and a new 2-story one framed in. (The rest of the house is high-ceilinged, so the addition is barely visible from the street. We live in a historic district so we had to get permission for this. We're trying very hard to stick to the original feel of the house. As it is, we're only increasing the size to about 1450 sf.)
Right now the new upstairs bathroom has just been tiled. The sink and toilet are about to be installed. Everything's sheetrocked and painted, but the windows and doors haven't been trimmed yet. (Today I stained and sealed a bunch of trim.) We have bought the planking for floors - we're going to re-floor the whole house as the original wood floor is a mess - and I guess that's the next big project. We also just bought and have started to install light fixtures.
Here are a few pictures from last year's photo meme - one of our lovely arched windows, and a view of part of the living room - a niche, and a bit of interior archway and a window. Right now we are living in this part of the house, but at the time we had just redone the walls and repainted.
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Date: 2005-11-14 02:02 am (UTC)♥♥♥♥♥
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Oh Isis, that is lovely. That window! The details like niches! The landscaping outside! I would love to see picspam!
I really envy you your pretty, pretty unpainted woodwork. Did you have to strip it before staining? Maybe it is just a southern thing, but around here it seems hard to find woodwork that hasn't been painted twenty times over (when they were renovating my last apartment, the guy who dipped the front doors told me they'd stripped away EIGHT layers of paint). Both these houses have painted woodwork, but I wasn't hoping for otherwise.
Another thing that's different down here: there aren't so many bidding wars for houses, and most go for several thousand dollars below list price. A good, reasonably-priced house in a nice neighborhood can stay on the market for several months before selling.
And another: floor heating seems like an extravangance here, where it doesn't get all that cold for all that long. But up there, I can only imagine how welcome it is--I can feel my toes curling luxuriously in sympathy! :D
On the whole, your renovation sounds much more comprehensive than mine would have to be. I would love to hear more--reading about projects like this is one of my favorite things to do.
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Date: 2005-11-14 01:26 am (UTC)I could make up some impressive-sounding reasoning that would obviously completely convince you to get the second house, but the truth is that there is nothing that can be said against a house with a little round room, really.
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Date: 2005-11-14 02:05 am (UTC)