I think I might be channeling my father.

[constance]

Aside from the fiendishly capitalist and corporate Barnes and Noble, every company I've worked for in the twenty-first century has featured obligatory moments of prayer in the workplace. Before meetings, before communal meals, before "extracurricular" functions, we all bow our heads for a prayer, silent or spoken. It's the price you pay for living in the Deep South; and man, it's a high price, at times, for someone who's agnostic at a stretch and only really not an atheist because she can't be unequivocal about what fucking salsa to buy*, much less about things as intangible as deities and human souls.

I try to be polite and respectful during these moments of prayer. I bow my head and keep quiet. I don't fidget or giggle or snort in derision. But sometimes it all gets to be too much, the way it did this morning, when our most fervent Monday-morning prayer leader begged God to "impose" his "will" upon "us all." I admit that a little snort did escape me. And suddenly I'd just had enough.

I mean. When I feel invisible spirits trying to impose their wills upon me, I'll reach for my powerful antipsychotics, thanks. I spent the rest of the prayer chafing at the idea that I should be cowed into pretending that I had any desire to be imposed upon. I held my head upright. My eyes were wide open. I felt enormously relieved.

If you're a Christian, more power to you. I still respect your right to believe in whatever God your faith leads you to. But I don't want a part in your worship any more, okay? Thanks for your attention in this matter.

_________________________________________________
* (recommendations and/or recipes are welcome!)

Comments

[aubrem.livejournal.com]

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

I've missed you. I got behind in reading your journal and then didn't let myself read until I got caught up and then that didn't work of course.

I saw this post though and couldn't stop myself from commenting that I feel your pain. I support my friends with faith, in fact I think their faith is often a beautiful thing (esp my Catholic friends) but lately I've been feeling like I'm part of a different species or something. Once in a while I get a glimpse that this belief in the supernatural they have underlies *everything* and so our persepectives are different in very fundamental ways. It makes me question their judgment about everything. Luckily in practical terms it doesn't usually matter - secular humanism, deism, same sort practical behaviour. Still, sometimes the gaping chasm shows.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

I've missed you too! :D This is a bad time to try and get caught up, when I am determined to post every day this month -- I'm sure from your end my journal looks sort of self-replicating.

Anyway, whether you ever manage to catch up or not, I'm glad to see you.

Once in a while I get a glimpse that this belief in the supernatural they have underlies *everything* and so our persepectives are different in very fundamental ways

I think this is definitely true. Devout religion, no matter what the religion is, is not just a single idea. It's a worldview underpinning one's every thought and and action, and underpinning one's views of others' thoughts and actions.

I try to make the difference between me and my religious acquaintances into a cultural difference in my head, which doesn't always work for me. Still, I do try, and my favorite Believers do, too. I guess that's all anyone can do.

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

You know, if I hadn't worked for years and years at a place called "The Bread of Life", which featured a big, plaster Jesus holding lambs perched on top of the dairy cooler full of raw milk and wheatgrass, I'd have a tough time (way out West here) getting my head around the Obligatory Moment of Prayer in the Workplace. But having had my share of it, I can at least commiserate. I love the thought of you standing there with your eyes open. I wish I'd had the nerve to do that, too, although I did pitch a tantrum once over OMG NO PROSELYTIZING WHILE I'M EATING, PLZ.

Do you have Trader Joe's out there? Because their Salsa Especial is so darned good.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

OMG NO PROSELYTIZING WHILE I'M EATING, PLZ

This is why I'm so chary of doing things like eating in breakrooms with coworkers, but I will admit that my current coworkers are so far showing no such tendencies. The first time that happened at the lunch table, I'd have to go back to having a car picnic every day.

There aren't any Trader Joe's in Macon, I'm afraid, but there are several in Atlanta, and I've been wanting to make a food trip there, try TJ's and hit Your DeKalb Farmer's Market again -- and now I have an excuse to get up there!

[fitofpique.livejournal.com]

i find the idea of having any kind of prayer thrust upon me in the workplace completely appalling, but i am canadian and that just would not (could not) happen here. i'm sorry you have to put up with that. man!

i absolutely love herdez mild salsa. it has the right texture - it isn't ketchupy like a lot of commercial salsas - and it's just spicy enough. yummy!

[tofty.livejournal.com]

Hey, I bought some Herdez salsa last night! I had to go straight home and stick a finger in it, and you're SO RIGHT about the lack of ketchupy gooiness, which is always my biggest complaint about store-bought as opposed to fresh. Thank you!

I have to admit that not wanting to put up with the prayer-in-public thing is a huge incentive to moving away. Also I would like to live in a state where my presidential vote counts, but maybe I'm being too picky.

[violetisblue.livejournal.com]

Back when I was still forced to attend the local bar association's pre-Thanksgiving banquet thingy every year, they would always have a supposedly nondenominational, actually overtly Christian invocation right before the food (usually, apparently, directed at praying that everyone who'd already been shit-faced for an hour and a half didn't kill someone on the drive home), and for those of us who refused to bow our heads to that at all it was highly amusing to see how many people did this little half-bow, looked furtively around and, when they saw scattered raised heads, lifted their own chins again with obvious relief. Says a lot about actual devotion versus the overpowering social pressure to say those loyalty oaths to an organized Christian faith of one sort or another. (Or, as Christopher Hitchens noted when he did the God Is Not Great book tour through the south and lower Midwest, everyone who showed up for every talk had mistakenly thought they were the lone atheist/agnostic/freethinker in all of Little Rock/Baton Rouge/Tallahassee.)

"I still respect your right to believe in whatever God your faith leads you to. But I don't want a part in your worship any more, okay?"

And any practicing Christian who can explain to me why "showing respect" to someone's faith requires one to publicly lie and profess belief in it oneself...ahhhh, never mind. The point is, a lot of people feel the same way, they're just being verrrrrrry quiet about it.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

why "showing respect" to someone's faith requires one to publicly lie and profess belief in it oneself

Because if you are not with them then YOU ARE THE INFERNAL, ENTERNAL ENEMY DIE DIE DIE, of course. Fundamentalists rock that way! And I'm planning to keep my eyes peeled for this phenomenon next time I'm forced to sit through someone else's prayers. It will be on Monday. I won't have long to wait. :/

[wishwords.livejournal.com]

*beams at you* Good for you in standing up for yourself.

Alas, I haven't found a salsa I'm happy with yet, either.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

A friend of mine in New Orleans made the most kickass homemade salsa, and I've been meaning to try to make my own ever since, but I am just so lazy. I need to find a recipe and try it! I know that! And as soon as I do, I'll share recipes around.

[tilney.livejournal.com]

I am surprised you made it this far *ardent non-believer* I think submitting yourself under the will and power of your chosen higher being should be done entirely in private and in a democratic, freedom-of-choice country forcing everyone into it is reprehensible, frankly.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

I think submitting yourself under the will and power of your chosen higher being should be done entirely in private and in a democratic, freedom-of-choice country forcing everyone into it is reprehensible

I agree with every word. Unfortunately, the majority of my compatriates don't, and as soon as you try to them understand why imposing your own beliefs on everyone around you, they start screaming oppression! like Loretta in Life of Brian.

[ainsley.livejournal.com]

I totally don't get why people feel the need to proclaim their faith. Is it somehow less real if you keep it to yourself? Does it not somehow dilute your prayers to have them be not between you and G-d but instead between you, G-d, and everyone who might be nearby (often through social coercion)?

I say this as a practicing Episcopalian, fwiw.

[amelia-eve.livejournal.com]

Another practicing Episcopalian here, also recoiling in disdain.

Of course at my church, we barely tell you about Jesus even if you come inside, because we don't to seem pushy like those vulgar evangelicals. You have to ask politely several times before we relent and bashfully give you some information, rather like a Japanese host.

One thing I love about New York is that it is so relentlessly heterogeneous and multicultural that nobody would dream of assuming they could get away with an overtly religious event at work.

[laurelwood.livejournal.com]

Of course at my church, we barely tell you about Jesus even if you come inside, because we don't to seem pushy like those vulgar evangelicals. You have to ask politely several times before we relent and bashfully give you some information, rather like a Japanese host.

I love this description!

[amelia-eve.livejournal.com]

SRSLY

We have a major event every year for the feast of St. Francis, where people bring their pets to be blessed. It is a huge deal and peole come from all over and line up to get in. We had a major debate about passing out informational leaflets to people waiting in line to enter the church. One of the priests was horrified at the notion that we might be prosletizing... to people who had voluntarily come to a service at our church!

[tofty.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha, I love this too! That is my kind of church, man.

I sometimes dream of the sort of multiculturalism which incorporates difference by default. Having lived in insular communities (even NO can be awfully limited in scope), I've never lived in such a place, and I feel I'm really missing out.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem is that many evangelical sects preach proselytization as part of the conversion experience. They're supposed to be out there spreading the word, you know?

And I've been writing down other reasons for like five minutes and they all sound kind of snide and/or bitter, so I'll quit while I'm ahead, but I do want to say THANK YOU on behalf of nonbelievers everywhere for your own discretion. :*

[ainsley.livejournal.com]

I know that, but...show, don't tell. If you have to *tell* me, then it's not obvious that being Born Again isn't all that and most certainly is not a bag of chips. So if you want to have any success at spreading the word, do so by letting me see how living it makes your life excellent.

The problem with that is, of course, it requires people to live it, to not judge, to be charitable, et cetera, and, well, not happening soon. Sadly.

And feel free to be snide and/or bitter. I'm in the South, too, so even though I believe (in a way) and you don't, I bet we could still revel together in our bitterness. Like the time I was told all Democrats are damned. Oh, wait, that just made me laugh.

[gmth.livejournal.com]

Buh...? An actual prayer rather than a generic moment of silence? Wow. Shows you how long it's been since I've been out in the workplace. I can't imagine such a thing. *boggles*

[tofty.livejournal.com]

I don't think you could get away with it on the East Coast north of Virginia, or on the West Coast, but I suspect that everywhere else is sort of a crapshoot. :/

[soliloquia.livejournal.com]

I mean. When I feel invisible spirits trying to impose their wills upon me, I'll reach for my powerful antipsychotics, thanks.

Permission to quote this?


That's a bit tough. I'm too stunned to come up with a better way of putting it, sorry. My commonsense world is loath to recognise that this still happens. :/

[tofty.livejournal.com]

Hahahaha, sure!

I'm afraid it's a way of like in parts of America. I recommend staying away from those parts whenever possible.

[friendly.livejournal.com]

What the heeeeeeeeeeeeell. Get out of the South. GET OUT!!!!!

[tofty.livejournal.com]

*runs screaming to Queensland*

[lindyhoppr.livejournal.com]

I feel you on the prayers. In the military, we have prayers all the time. I am a christian, and I pray all the time on my own; but I still feel kind of awkward when it happens.

Pace Salsa is great. I know that it's commercial, but I love it so much. Tostitos makes an acceptable substitute. Otherwise, I must have the stuff made down the road from me at Vivi's Restaurant.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

Restaurant salsa in my experience is fresh, and usually so much better than what you can buy in a store! There're several restaurants here with excellent salsa, but probably it would not be good for my health to eat Mexican restaurant food twice a week. More's the pity.

[amelia-eve.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I am private about religion but utterly evangelical about La Victoria Mild Green Taco Sauce (http://www.mexgrocer.com/14911.html). Smooth and light, with a nice flavor of tomatillos that doesn't overwhelm other flavors or blast your tastebuds into numbness.

[tofty.livejournal.com]

I'll put La Victoria on my list of stuff to try -- thanks for getting The Word out there!

I do love me a really spicy salsa, though. Not always, but sometimes.

[dahlia-777.livejournal.com]

Seriously, obligatory prayers as in *compulsory*! O_o I've never heard of a workplace in the UK where there's even *optional* praying. I'm afraid I just could not be doing with that. I mean, I refuse to stand up for the national anthem, even. (Not that I attend functions where God Save The Queen gets played all that often, so it's not a big issue.) I really think I could not work in a place that forced religion on me. The very idea makes me queasy.

Btw did you catch the recent interview with Tony Blair (who's rumoured to be about to convert to Catholicism, incidentally) where he explained how he barely mentioned his faith while PM for fear of being thought "a nutter" by voters? Attitudes to religion are so, so different here...