constance: (breakfast is the most important meal.)
constance ([personal profile] constance) wrote2007-01-20 09:18 am

Gratuitous interactive book post + abuse of adverbs

I feel sure that I've mentioned before that I love to read, right? :D That I have a houseful of books and acquire more on a weekly basis, that I never feel the need to join those book-a-week communities because the idea of not reading/rereading fifty books a year is completely foreign to me, even if I rarely feel comfortable talking about them for fear of trying others' patience.

There are books I like and ones I am indifferent to and a few I simply loathe, but I'm rarely intimidated, once I open the covers, into not finishing. David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest nearly defeated me, though. It's a gigantic book, and it's dense and heavily endnoted, which is fine, except that I read and read without getting pulled in. (In fact, the only thing that kept me reading past, say, page 150, was the knowledge that it's A Certain Friend's favorite book and having started it I felt embarrassed not finishing it, on her account.) I read, I say, and read and read, flipping back and forth between the end notes, getting increasingly annoyed with David Foster Wallace for being so apparently willing to sacrifice everything worthwhile in his novel to his obsessive love for his own voice.

I remember the exact moment when that feeling changed for me, too, when it became clear to me that what I was reading was not so much a young man's thousand-page sploogefest (or do I mean spoogefest?) as what I am thinking is The Great American Novel made manifest. I can't tell you what that scene is without issuing some serious spoilers, but after my epiphany I settled in eagerly; and I am becoming increasingly aware as I read that this is possibly the finest instance of one of my own bulletproof kinks that I will ever see.

(Do you remember bulletproof kinks? Te, I think, is the one who first talked about them in conjunction with fandom. She was referring to porn when she put the term forward, but I think it can be applied in a more general sense, too, to any concept or scenario which will move you unbearably every time you read it (no matter how mediocre its execution).)

My bulletproof kink centers around what I've come to think of as a new and peculiarly American form of tragedy, built around a group of people, all bright and funny and/or quirky, whose primary impetus seems to be engaging, and who fail, utterly or maybe just barely, to engage, almost every time they try. The overshots and undershots and near-misses, everyone terribly, frighteningly isolated and nearly irreparably damaged because of it, which makes the rare connections, when they do come, all the more poignant and dear, and throws the misses into sharp relief.

Okay, I've got off-point here. My points are these:

(1) I am reading Infinite Jest. I am enjoying it very much. If you feel the urge to read, hang in there. It is worth any effort you put into it.

(2) Do you have literary bulletproof kinks? What are they?

[identity profile] laurelwood.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 03:19 pm (UTC)(link)
First of all, thanks for my first laugh of the day over "getting increasingly annoyed with David Foster Wallace for being so apparently willing to sacrifice everything worthwhile in his novel to his obsessive love for his own voice."

Also, your bulletproof kink sounds wonderful. I'm trying, but due to my undercaffeinated state, unable, to think of examples of this kink in things that I've read. Can you toss out any popular examples?

One of my bulletproof kink is Great Depression-style "making do"- I cannot resist stories that feature people in hard times, finding ways to stretch resources, pool resources, or invent resources to get by. Not so much the "rags to riches" scenario; I kind of prefer it when life doesn't suddenly become glittery, but maybe just a little less meager.

Another is anything to do with communal living; boarding school, prison, the military, communes, kibbutzim, etc. (My family has teased me my whole life about lining up cots for dolls in grim little rows, and posting rigid bathroom privilege rules.) The dynamic of asserting/maintaining one's individuality in this sort of "everyone gets the same ration" environment is endlessly alluring to me.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 03:53 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, here are two examples of mine, one book and one film: Bee Season by Myla Goldberg and The Royal Tenenbaums by Wes Anderson.

I want examples too, though! I can think of examples of both of your great bulletproof kinks, I think (The Long Winter, or One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest), but I want to see yours! I am suddenly thinking this might be an excellent way to rec things you love, and ways for me to find new and interesting things to read.

[identity profile] laurelwood.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 04:26 am (UTC)(link)
Aha! I have not seen The Royal Tenenbaums, but I did read Bee Season and now I more thoroughly understand exactly what you mean. In fact, looking at the book now in retrospect, I think I appreciate and admire it even more than I did when I read it.

The Long Winter was one of the "making do" stories I had in mind. I mean, really, you can't get more resourceful than twisting hay into logs till your hands bleed. Other "creative deprivation" all-time favorites are Homecoming, by Cynthia Voigt and A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, both of which I'm sure you're familiar with.

One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest!! I totally forgot about that one. Another favorite is Midnight Express (I grew up on the movie, but the book was good, too), and One More River by Lynn Reid Banks (she rewrote this one and CHANGED it, though, and now I can't find an older, uncorrupted copy), and Back Home, by Michelle Magorian. And OMG, anything Amish, because that hits both the communal/conformity kink AND the victory gardenish home economy kink at the same time. Too bad stories with an Amish setting are scarcer than hen's teeth.

Aiee! Sorry to go on so long! As long as I'm exceeding my word limit, though, I'll mention that I hope you decide to mention more of the books you're reading, because your description of them and the things you notice about literature are really interesting and inspiring. Okay. Done now. :))))

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-23 12:55 am (UTC)(link)
Do not dare to apologize! I honestly want comments like this, both because I feel more at home rhapsodizing about books when others are doing it too, and also because I am insatiably curious about the books people read. :)

I read A Tree Grows in Brooklyn as a teenager, and I'm afraid I don't remember too much about it -- I think I still own a copy, though, and I should pick it back up, and of the the others you mention I've only read Homecoming (which you're right, was amazing). Yay for new books to read!

Isn't it fun trying to think of things that fit into these categories for you? I've had fun all weekend thinking of more.

[identity profile] tilney.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 05:39 pm (UTC)(link)
(2) I think a meeting with something other, new, unknown. Which is why I love travel and good erotic literature so much, it's a portrait of displacement and of a personality trying to deal with an encounter with something else, and trying to describe it.

I like it that you ask such interesting questions.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, you are an adventurer! :D So tell me what some of your favorites are, if you please.

[identity profile] tilney.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 03:51 pm (UTC)(link)
Hmm. There might be some truth in it, but maybe I like to read about adventure to stay out of it in real life? I fear I will never know :).

SO! There is something about the Hornblower series that I absolutely loved (maybe another kink: good people trying to make do in strange circumstances); travel literature: Prospero's Cell by Lawrence Durrell, a beautiful account of his life on Corcyra, anything by Paul Theroux, Umberto Eco's The Island of the Day Before I think you'd really love.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-23 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
Hornblower hits a different kink for me: the protagonist who finds his or her niche in things apart from what other people hold dear. But I do see what you mean. And I love Theroux as well! and the only Durrell I've read is Justine, but clearly I'm going to have to look these others up. :)

[identity profile] amelia-eve.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 08:49 pm (UTC)(link)
Sexually I have always used the term "kryptonite" for my never-fail fantasies, but part of what keeps them lively is that I never tell anyone about them. It keeps them shiny and new and doesn't wear them out.

Literature is actually a little tougher to define. I think of it by genres rather than by plot line. I am fond of almost anything set between the wars, the harder boiled the better. I'm a sucker for crackling dialogue and telling sartorial details; Raymond Chandler owns my heart on these.

I'm also devoted to career girl stories. The Best of Everything, Scruples, even Valley of the Dolls push all my "plucky girl in the big city" buttons. Lately I have been meditating about why I don't think that The Devil Wears Prada and other recent Chick Lit books are really the same, but I haven't formulated enough thoughts for a real post yet. I could watch reruns of That Girl until my eyeballs fall out.

Another genre that often intersects with career girl stories is the group-of-friends joint Bildungsroman. Valley of the Dolls actually falls into this realm, though of course the real doyenne is The Group. In a more modern vein, Lace is a good example with a clever premise, or Loose Change or Braided Lives for a slightly more intellectual angle.

I may be reading in the gutter but I'm looking at the stars.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 12:53 am (UTC)(link)
*pets Amelia Wilde*

I don't talk too much about my particular fanfictional and/or sexual BKs (there's a fair bit of overlap there) these days, either, though I was much more open about them when I'd first found fandom and was delighted by the presence of all those kindred spirits. Anyway, I respect your right to keep yours secret and safe.

Hahaha, what a fine flock of novels you've rounded up! Some I know and some I don't, and a couple, Lace for example, I read so long ago that I only remember the absolutely luridest parts of them. (I do remember Lili very fondly, though.) I'm a big Philip Marlowe fan (I first picked him up when I read S.J. Perelman's parodies long ago, but Chandler is a writer you don't really forget. And I agree that chick lit doesn't belong in the same class as the old standbys as, say, Princess Daisy (my personal Krantz favorite, though I do like Scruples and okay I am tired of italicizing so you'll have to bear with me Mistral's Daughter as well. Thinking about it now, the only explanation I can come up with as to why they ought to be separated is that potboilers or no, the old standbys feel epic and substantial in a way that the chick-lit doesn't. Does that make sense?

I'm rambling here, and so I'll stop. :D This is why I tend to try not to talk too much about books -- I get all incoherent and bugeyed and talk with my arms waving.

[identity profile] amelia-eve.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 02:26 am (UTC)(link)
My favorite Krantz is Mistral's Daughter -- it's the richest I think and the most complex. I still totally admire Scruples though -- how to turn your junior year abroad into a best-selling novel. (It's got that nice ugly-duckling bit, too.)

I'm still scratching around for my ideas for a full post, but I'd say the big difference in the Chick Lit gals is that they are so ambivalent and gutless. Krantz's women know what they need to do, how they have to use all the ancient tricks that women have learned over the centuries to get ahead (and that we will, by the way, get to learn at the same time, except how to tie an Hermes scarf like a Frenchwoman, which we must still only imagine). Also, while romance is always part of the happy ending of a Krantz novel, it's not the primary motivator. The women create their own success, and getting a man is just one part of that. You know, like the heroes of regular (male) stories.

Also, Judith Krantz used to write for Vogue. She gets all the lifestyle stuff in exquisite detail. Danielle Steele tells you that things are luxurious; Judith Krantz show you what luxury is and helps you feel like an insider who will be able to recognize it in her own life.

Now tell me more about these Perelman parodies of Chandler. I just stumbled in through Dashiell Hammet. Also, try Cornell Woolrich if you like that stuff.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-23 01:27 am (UTC)(link)
Well, the Perelman parodies weren't really parodies of Chandler at all; in fact, they weren't so much parodies per se as sort of precursors to his "Cloudland Revisited" series of essays, where he take a genre beloved by him long ago, rereads, and pokes it with sticks. This particular poking session (called "Somewhere a Roscoe...") featured the detective magazine, wherein all the stories, of course, were faint and/or exaggerated copies of Chandler's and Hammett's styles. I was kind of taken by all that weary cynicism (being, you know, a jaded and world-weary fourteen-year-old myself), and after multiple rereadings over the years ended up in the midst of a perfect storm of hard-boiled detectives in my early twenties. I read Chandler and Hammett, and then somehow drifted into crime novels and so to Patricia Highsmith and never quite got back to round off the genre with Woolrich, whom I've seen about but never read.

Ah, you put it so well, the difference between the girl-in-the-wide-world novels of twenty years ago and today's chick-lit. And I agree that Mistral's Daughter is the best of Krantz's novels, not just epic but moving and thoughtful as well. But I can't help it: I adore Princess Daisy because it was one of the first grown-up novels I ever read by sneaking it out of my mother's bedside table, and I have a special fondness for it, for that reason.

[identity profile] octoberstory.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 08:54 pm (UTC)(link)
I've always loved that term of Te's, but never bothered to consider what my own BK would be. Thanks for making me consider. ♥

It didn't take me long to realize that mine actually is a sexual kink that happens to gratify (or intrigue?) me on every level. The Eroticized Rivalry has never yet failed to reel me in. No matter how shitty the execution, this dynamic strikes some chord of need or recognition in me that manages to salvage the story every time. Whether the characters experience an attraction in spite (or perhaps because) of a mutual tension, or simply manage to overcome their dislike long enough to share a moment of communion, I find myself so completely buzzed.

In terms of fandoms, this preference always dictates my ships of choice. Snape/Harry is my HP OTP, I can't get enough Season 2 Starbuck/Tigh action for BSG, and--if I ever got more than peripherally interested in Veronica Mars fanfiction--I would be the first to churn out some naughty and embarassing Veronica/Sheriff Lamb.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 12:58 am (UTC)(link)
That's the one I would've guessed for you! It's one we share, of course, although you're much more articulate on the subj than I am. I find myself seeking these adversarial interactions out now, in books and films (my most recent love is for Casino Royale Bond/M), and am delighted when I find them. My fave take on this particular theme is ye olde adversaries-as-unwilling-allies, I have to admit.

YES. yesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

[identity profile] octoberstory.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Holy. fucking. cow. Did you find Shalott's Bond/M fic independently, or did I mention it to you? Because it was painfully, scorchingly fabulous, wasn't it.

Re: YES. yesyesyesyesyesyesyes.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-23 01:32 am (UTC)(link)
I have never so much as seen this story of which you speak! :O:O:O I've gotten out of the habit of searching for fanfic, lately, I'm sorry to say, and we've never discussed our true love for Bond/M, though WHY AM I NOT SURPRISED THAT YOU FEEL IT TOO.

Anyway, I am off to remedy my woeful lack of Bond/M fanfic as soon as I finish answering comments.

[identity profile] amelia-eve.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
Isn't this pretty much the basis of the entire Tracy-Hepburn oeuvre? My favorite of those has always been Desk Set.

[identity profile] octoberstory.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 05:46 pm (UTC)(link)
This is embarrassing, but I've seen fewer classic films than contemporary ones, and Hepburn has never been a favorite of mine. I did enjoy The Philadelphia Story, but Jimmy Stewart could have filmed himself reading the phone book and I'd be transfixed.

Maybe I'll check out Desk Set on your recommendation. ^_^

[identity profile] amelia-eve.livejournal.com 2007-01-22 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
I think that Adam's Rib or Pat and Mike are considered more classics in the screwball banter category, but Desk Set is a bit later (1957) and their relationship is more mature. She plays the head of the research group for a large TV network, and she is a wonderful boss to her all-female staff of librarians. He's the MIT scientist who's come to install the company's first computer (which is big as a house). The researchers assume that the computer will put them out of work, so it's war between them, with everything culminating in a very boozy office Christmas party. They are both nerdy and brilliant and prickly and perfect for each other.

[identity profile] coco-palmolive.livejournal.com 2007-01-20 10:41 pm (UTC)(link)
Please email me and let me know the point at which DFW won you over because I can tell it happened far later for you than for me. But on the other hand, it's a subtle distinction; the point at which the book clicked into place for me was not when I realized how deadly serious it is (which was probably some scene with Don Gately) but just when I became comfortable that DFW was not actually making fun of me for not being as hip as he seemed to be. Which was the Erdedy scene with the simultaneous ringing telephone/doorbell.

[identity profile] tofty.livejournal.com 2007-01-21 01:00 am (UTC)(link)
Oh! I wonder what happened to the email I sent you a while back, the email which detailed this very epiphany? In any case! I'm most sorry it went astray, and I shall send you an email forthwith.